The Rail and Road Pod Episode 19: trainee rail inspectors - making the grade

Saj Chowdhury

Hello, I'm Saj Chowdhury and welcome to the 19th edition of the Rail and Road Pod. Now, we regulate health and safety for the entire mainline rail network in Britain, as well as London Underground light rail, trams and the heritage sector. For us to manage that, we require large team of inspectors who might be asked to perform regular site visits one day and then investigate incidents the next. The work is demanding and fulfilling as we look to ensure Britain's railways remain one of the safest in Europe. Many of our inspectors stay with the Railway Safety Directorate for several years, but we're always on the lookout for new applicants who want to take their first steps as a trainee before becoming a fully-fledged inspector. So in this episode, we'll be speaking to two current trainee inspectors, an ORR inspector who explains what is needed to make the grade. And we'll be hearing from His Majesty's Chief Inspector of Railways, Ian Prosser, who, in his final year in the role, gives advice to those at the beginning of their careers. 

Before that, it's time to review what's been happening at ORR. So, over in the summer, we published four annual reports Network Rail, Health and Safety, Consumer and National Highways. Regarding prosecutions, Network Rail was fined 6.7 million pounds for health and safety failings which led to the accident at Carmont in Scotland in 2020. It followed a joint investigation which included Police Scotland, British Transport Police and ourselves, under the direction of the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service. Meanwhile, our investigation and prosecution of Gwili Railway Company Limited resulted in a fine of 18,000 pounds for the Heritage Railway Company after it pleaded guilty to one Work at Height Regulations offence. Regarding consumer work, we sent a letter to train operators about improving notifications to those whose pre-booked trains had been altered. And we also announced Declan Collier's reappointment as our chair for a further five-year term.

Now back to this episode. Fu Lee, who was previously with the Health and Safety Executive and with a good legal background, and Lindsey Smith, formerly in the steel industry and with a vast knowledge of rail, are taking their first steps as they look to secure careers as ORR inspectors. The rigorous training they've embarked upon, which can be mixed and matched to suit the individual's needs, takes around two years and involves learning about the many aspects of the role. So I caught up with them and asked them about their journey so far.

Saj Chowdhury

What made you want to become a trainee inspector?

Fu Lee

My previous experience was in HSE, so I was an inspector in HSE. I was in the construction division. So a lot of the work is similar to be a health and safety inspector, generally the ability to do something valuable because effectively you're making workplaces safer. You get to meet people, you go to people's workplaces, you do inspections and you get them to do things so that they can make the place safer for people to work in. And on the flip side is also, when something goes wrong, you have the opportunity to investigate, to find out what's wrong, to understand how things work and possibly take legal action. So all of it, it's interesting work for me. And the railway specifically is also very interesting because it's a completely different industry, it's always there in the background and there's so many things happening. I've already said, from a health and safety point of view, it's really nice to be able to do things which will make things safer, et cetera. But from understanding how things function, the railways is incredible as well, because it's a huge industry and there's so many bits of it. That's why I thought it would be a good idea to join the ORR as an inspector.

Saj Chowdhury

And what about yourself, Lindsey?

Lindsey Smith

Yeah, so my background is obviously I've worked for an track specialist, but within the steel industry, so rail manufacturing and consultancy. I used to manage a team and I'd look after their railway safety side of things to make sure when they were going out and doing inspections and stuff, that they were within a safe environment and looking at things like how they get into site and stuff. And also, the steel industry is very much a high-risk environment and I took all that, my experience of railway over the year, and I wanted to be able to make a difference to other people, to have an influence on other people's health and safety and ensure that the rail industry is in a better place. And obviously, being inspector for an ORR puts you in that perfect prime position to be able to make that difference.

Saj Chowdhury

How does the process start with you wanting to join the traineeship?

Lindsey Smith

I was looking for different opportunities and I saw the trainee adverts come up (looking) for a number of inspectors and I started by making enquiries and applying, went through an assessment centre and finally got offered the role. And then the programme is around about two years to take you through all the relevant legal legislation. So clearly my background is different from Fu, Fu's got the Health and Safety. I've got the industry knowledge, so I know the railway inside out, but I've had to, over those two years, build up the legal knowledge.

Saj Chowdhury

Fu, I'll come to you. What has been the most challenging aspect so far of it?

Fu Lee

Yes, like Lindsey just said, so my previous background was already in health and safety regulation, so health and safety law was something which I was already familiar with. But I had no familiarity with railway, though, or the technical side of the railways, which obviously Lindsey had. So for me, it was to understand how railways work, to understand what the risks are on railways. To say the most challenging bit is to be able to go out and speak to people and understand how the railway functions, not only from a technical point of view, how the overhead lines function, how the tracks or how signalling functions, but also in terms of how is fatigue managed, how is competence managed. So this is quite different from what I did previously. So for me to get my head around all of that, that was more challenging. And that is the focus of our training actually because, unlike Lindsey, I don't have to do the regulatory training programme, so I don't have to do the legal stuff, but what I do have to do is a technical training programme where I just focus on the technical aspects of the railway. That's the challenging bit for myself.

Saj Chowdhury

And what about for yourself, Lindsey? What have you found easy to deal with, let's just say, has come to you naturally and what have you found slightly more difficult?

Lindsey Smith

The easy bit. Yeah, I know the railway inside out. I'm a bit of a railway nerd, shall I say, so it's a little bit of a hobby as well as a job, so that's great. Again, some of the health and safety stuff, it's been relatively easy because it's straightforward, it's just picking up some of the legislation and making sure it sinks into your brain. I think some of the more challenging stuff for me is obviously, I worked for 15 years in consultancy, so some of the people I'm seeing are obviously people that I've known from the industry side of the job. And I think some of the comments I've had is gamekeeper turned poacher. So it's just making sure it's building those relationships and making people aware. That we are there for a collaborative approach to be able to move people to the right place in terms of safety. On the liaison side of things.

Saj Chowdhury

What advice would you give to those who want to train to become an inspector? I'll start with you, Lindsey.

Lindsey Smith

For me, I think it helps if you have a natural enthusiasm for railways, because it's a large industry, there's so many different aspects of it to get to know. And I think having a natural interest also enables you to have those good working relationships with other people out in the industry, because obviously they're quite enthusiastic about their certain part of the railway as well.

Saj Chowdhury

And Fu?

Fu Lee

Yeah, I think it helps to be really curious about how things work because when you're naturally very curious about how the railways work, you'll go and ask the questions and find out the answers. And the ability to speak to people, to be able to build rapport with people, because that's a large part of what we do when we go out and inspect. You have to be able to speak to people and build rapport and ask the right questions. Equally, when you do investigations and you need to find out information, you've got to be able to build the right rapport with the people you're speaking with. So I think those are two elements I think would be good to develop.

Saj Chowdhury

Thank you, Lindsey and Fu, for that invaluable insight and good luck for the future. Now, the pair have been guided by experienced members of the Inspectorate during their traineeship, one of whom is Peter Darling. Peter has been a railway inspector for more than 20 years and he explained to me what is required of candidates to make the grade at ORR.

Saj Chowdhury

Peter Darling, thank you for joining us. I spoke to Fu Lee and Lindsey Smith and they're taking their first steps en route to becoming fully fledged inspectors. I wanted to ask you, Peter, what role have you played in helping the careers of inspectors?

Peter Darling

OK, thank you. That's an excellent question. So I started on the railway many, many years ago, back in 1974. I was brought into what was then HSE as a very specialist inspector because of my railway knowledge. Now, obviously, you don't have to be a former railway person to work with ORR but in terms of my knowledge, I've taken out brand new people who we've recruited from different areas and I've basically shown them what the railway is all about. Quite often, because of my length of service, I forget the very obvious questions. What does a railway track look like? How do trains operate? All these kind of good things that we learn. So part of my training course is to actually get hold of people and say, well, this is how a railway is built. So I normally run a two-day course and I tell people all about the railway. And that is fundamentally from here are two lines that are attached to some chairs, that are attached to some sleepers, that are put on ballast, that is compacted, et cetera. And we work away from the very basics all the way through to how trains work, how passenger trains work at stations, how freight trains work.

Peter Darling

So people come in and they ask a host of questions that I've actually forgot. So it's also really good for me as an instructor to go, you know what, that's a really good question because it keeps me on my toes as well. I also take people out physically with me and show them the railway, show them the real thing.

Saj Chowdhury

Can it be quite daunting?

Peter Darling

People should never, ever be daunted. I am still learning after all these years and I never stop learning. So we recruit people from all walks of life. They don't have to be a railwayman, they don't have to have a legal background, providing they pass our interview panel and stuff and we get them on board. We will teach you and give you all the knowledge that you need. So you're right, it does look a little bit frightening. Trains can be really frightening when you stand up alongside them. The whole of how it all works and fits together can be quite daunting for people. But one of the key things is, as an inspector is you will actually look and investigate things. So one of the good things we look for in people is actually, have you got an inquisitive mind? Do you actually need to look and keep asking that question? Why did this happen? Why did that happen? And those kind of qualities, that investigative role actually helps people to understand the railway, because in general, people who work on the railway will always happily tell you what goes on. But no, what everybody is, do not be daunted about joining us.

Peter Darling

It's probably the equivalent of me wanting to go and work at a nuclear power station. I'd know absolutely nothing about it, but you actually start at the very basics of, well, how does this work? What does that do? What's the safety system for that? What's your method of working for this? Where's your risk assessment? So, no, whatever it is, please do not be daunted by coming to join us.

Saj Chowdhury

So what happens after the traineeship? Can those qualified go out and start inspecting?

Peter Darling

Once you've done your apprenticeship and you've been qualified by an internal panel, then, yes, essentially, you were let out on your own. However, there's one really key important thing here. You are never on your own in the ORR. We are one big family. So whilst we say you may be fully qualified as an inspector, as I've alluded to before, you never, ever stop learning. So you may go out and investigate something that you're not too sure of, and you can always bring up people like myself for help or advice. It may be that it's something quite specialist that you have to go to another team for, for help. It could be something to do with signalling, it could be something to do with track. Although I've been in this industry quite a few years, I don't know everything. Things keep changing, things keep moving forward. So I in turn, have to learn myself. So what we do do is we often run internal refresher courses. There may be something new come up that you go, "Actually, I know nothing about that. Have we got a course about this?", and in which case you can go on that course. So you may come out of training the other end with your basic knowledge, but you will greatly increase that over the years.

Saj Chowdhury

Thank you, Peter. The Office of Rail and Road are obviously lucky to have you. Now, Ian Prosser, His Majesty's Chief Inspector of Railways, has witnessed the maturing of many who started out as trainees during his time at ORR, which comes to an end next summer. He shared his thoughts on the role of an inspector and whether it had changed.

Saj Chowdhury

Thank you for taking time out of your schedule, Ian. Now, you must have seen quite a few new recruits blossom during your time as Chief Inspector. What advice would you give to those either thinking of becoming a trainee or at the start of their journeys?

Ian Prosser

I think just make the most of the education you get and the communication and interaction with your colleagues because you will learn so much from them. There is such a wealth of experience in the directorate that everyone I know that's come through the system so far has done really well in the main. Obviously not 100%, but enjoy what they do, which is the most important thing.

Saj Chowdhury

Thanks Ian. During your 15 years in charge, how has the role changed for inspectors?

Ian Prosser

I don't think it's changed a great deal. We've tried to be as proactive as possible. Certainly when I first came, we started to try and target at least 50% of our time on inspection. We have had some real successes in terms of our interventions. From a proactive inspection point of view. I think we've become more professional. We were very professional anyway, and the training had always been good, but we have improved our processes and we look forward to actually continuously improving those as we go forward, in terms of the new case management system, for example, which will help inspectors a lot, and some of the improvements we've made to things like enforcement management model for inspectors, which will make their life a bit more straightforward, but it's important to continuously improve. And the big thing for me has been the introduction of RM3, which in some ways been a gamechanger for the industry. It's been a big success in terms of our reputation as ORR and the Railway Inspectorate and is now widely used across the industry in the UK, but also overseas. And there's a real opportunity for everyone to continuously improve and work collaboratively, to actually see movement towards our goal of excellence in health and safety management, which is what I set out in the beginning, my first year, actually all that time ago when I set out our vision of zero industry course fatalities and ever-decreasing risk and the goal of excellence in health and safety management.

Saj Chowdhury

And as you enter your final year, what words of wisdom would you pass on to the new crop of inspectors?

Ian Prosser

I think the most important thing is stand by your convictions and be brave and look for opportunities to actually make sure the industry improves and ensure that the industry is not complacent. We're going to go through, and have been going through obviously since COVID, some difficult times in not just the mainline railway, but in TfL and in even the heritage and tram sectors. So it's important that we remain focused, stand by our convictions and where we need to act, act - that's really important. In a proportionate way and in line with our policies, but we do need to act when we think we need to avoid any incidents and take the industry forward in the future.

Saj Chowdhury

Thank you, Ian, it was great to hear you talk about the different models inspectors use in order to log their work and be consistent and reasonable when addressing issues. And thanks to Fu, Lindsey and Peter. That's all for this podcast. Remember, you can find out more about our health and safety duties and also our other work in rail and road by visiting orr.gov.uk. And of course, you can follow us on our social channels, including X, formerly Twitter, LinkedIn and YouTube. Thank you for listening.